Road To Major Fud Improvements Starts With Repricing

Working in subtractive manufacturing of parts as my "day job", Ive picked up on a few things
1. customers don't like uncertainty
2. they don't like big price changes up or down. (why was I paying more last week?)

It seems like Shapeways has failed on both accounts. Were I stand on the issue is the price is what it when I order, I can ether order it or not. What has stopped me from ordering more ( I have some in process now) is I am waiting to see how this all shakes out.

Will the pricing model change or need to be changed again?
Will the promised tools make me change some designs?
Will ornamentation arrive and will I need to make changes based on that?
Right now, doing nothing seems like the safest bet unless I need it now, If I really wanted to gamble I'd go play the lottery.

I think if the parts are identical, they only show up once.

So it seems like some models take longer than others to show up in the support material function. Wait long enough and they do seem to eventually appear, not ideal, would be good if SW can improve this. One concern though is how accurate this preview is. The printers obviously have a few guidelines they follow when printing and this should be fairly predictable if consistent with the support material preview. Some of my test prints seems to show otherwise.

The lower price per volume of FUD is definitely a good thing. This allows me to make bigger scale models. The per part pricing, not so. Granted I don't have a lot of products to modify, so I don't mind it so much as I can re-design to add sprues. However, adding sprues may affect the print orientation and those my customers might not get the same results as the test prints I had before. This bit I don't like. However being able to set print orientation will help ensure the quality that my customers get. Which will help make my product be more competitive against their cast resin counterparts.
Being able to preview the print orientation and support material if consistent would also help in quality assurance.

cheers,
Sonny

Prove it.

You only told me that I have to trust on the orientation is the cheaper without any more evidence and that you have your hand tied.

I can write here all the mesages and replies, I have no problem about the matter.

FOR ME, reworking just now is USELESS.

FOR ME, orientation is doing RANDOMLY till the moment somebody proves this is the best in quality+price variables.

I think models like this are now always going to be more expensive than under the old pricing structure (especially if you want the best quality once orientation is available). The problem is that the entire model needs to be filled with support wax when printed as a single piece, or even if split in two and laid outside up. Cheapest orientation would probably be split in half and outside down, but that would obliterate most of the outside surface detail.

While I feel for you, if we are to believe that the new pricing structure is closer to the actual cost of printing than the old one, then we can see just how people have been under paying on models like this, and hence how much other people have been over paying to subsidise these models: 76 Euro is a big difference and that money needs to come from somewhere.

Mark

hey Support Material not show after 24 h.
http://shpws.me/OwN7
It can be that of automatic orientation
A problem with radially arranged models?

OK so what gives here. After sprueing the crap out of this model, purchased before the pricing change was $51.69.

Before-sprue part count 17 parts and before SW price changes:


After SW price change for the same model:


After sprue part count = 1, with 6 less parts (less material volume but I did not investigate the added sprue material voilume) and 9 parts moved inside one shell to reduce machine space where the six parts are now a separate model as a single part also; note that overall print height did not change:


So $58.70 + $6.72 = $65.42 overall cost for a totally sprued model vs $80.70 for separate parts in the new pricing. So while it is a 19% reduction in the new pricing structure, the new pricing is a 21% increase over my original 17 piece kit and a 56% increase over the original SW pricing.

So what does anyone recommend, I think there are 3 options?:

1. Sprue the second part to the first adding machine space?
2. Leave the second part loose in the kit for a per part increase? (would this also save the $2.50 setup fee as it would not be a completely separate design?)
3. Leave the two parts separate as they are now?

This is just one example and I do not like the risks of my customers damaging any of the parts to remove them from the sprues (a fact which everyone seems to ignore).

Some of my other multi-part models saw no cost benefit to sprueing which was quite surprising so i left them alone and allowed a minor price increase.

There actually seems to be a price tipping point where $mutli-model parts < $sprued price at about 4-5 parts; any more parts than that and the per-part fees overcome the other new costs such as machine space, etc. This part saw minimal cost benefit to sprueing, likely due to the added cost of the sprue material, so I left it alone. This also avoids any breakage issues by the customer.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/T...enerator?key=b7c06d455110cddd689628e8d93a88cc
.

Very difficult to have a price. too many variables. Machine space pricing sure make the difference.

Only true is that in case this model will be printed in vertical with a thin base, these sprues don't be located as I did.

This is why I told you all my reworking would be useless if I can't decide in what position the model will be printed. Sprues will hide detailed zones but also increased height. Not the clever sprue location for this orientation.

I have made on of my models with a sprue. The parts are orientated for best quality

Crane 8 axle, 1:87 before change 320€, after change 448€, with sprue 444€

Model before sprue 89 parts. + 40% material: 57,15ccm, machine space: 315,46ccm
Model with sprue 1 part + 38% material: 64,27ccm, machine space: 548,63ccm

The difference between sprue and without sprue is only 4€. The cost of more material and wax support is equal to the price of 89 parts.

The price will change a little if i do the parts like bathtube, but then the detailed surfaces will be on the support wax side and causes bad finish on the surface. splitting the model is also not possible due to stability.

So i will let my models the way they are until now. It was before the price changed to expensive. But now its a lot more expensive.

A cranemodel like this from Kibri begins with 50€

gregor57> Only small parts benefit from sprues.
When you put sprues on big parts, it has rather negative effect, as the you pay for machine space more then "smallest possible space taken" (and you are also paying the machine space according to highest point from whole piece, and you pay for wax under sprues etc.)

So what generaly makes sense is tu put sprues only on small (=cheap) parts - lets say those, that alone would cost < 3 USD for material + machine space.


What is clearly visible is what I was criticizing in the beginning. The new formula for price computation is clear for computer to find best possible solution for lowest price.
But even when it looks very simply, the parameters are tied togetheg on diffrent levels, so it is impossible for normal human being (unless yo are Einstein - who - as far as I know, was not 3D modeler) to find out best possible layout of model for price optimisation.

I was pretty positive on the new pricing. I changed 100+ models, and re-uploaded them.
Now comes the depressing bit!!! The first model was rejected on some small surface details. It had printed fine but now someone decides it can't be printed.
And the worst part: it was rejected 3 minutes after the customer ordered! Yes, it's impressive that you act so fast, and no I am not impressed. You didn't even try to print it.
@MitchellJetten @HenrikRydberg please ask the checkers to be leniant and give the benefit of the doubt. This really really really annoys me

Upload it and open it for sale again.
If the model don't have a real issue (i.e. loose parts or big thin surfaces you miss to check), it pass in a second or (rare) third time. This has worked before several times with my rejections. That's a shame, but this is true! (oh, finally were 100% successfully printed).

This tells a lot on the high level of professionalism and knowledge about limits for this technology of checking engineers.

@MitchellJetten
on the page MyModels you lost an "L"
it says" New pricing for all frosted detail pastics and cast metals. Download your CSV to compare prices."
pastics i think its better then plastics

i have to agree with HOLDEN8702. the new pricing and orientation idea just sucks. it doesn't work properly and if it does in some cases, its just a matter of luck. the whole new fud pricing project is a failure so far and shapeways need to understand that continuing a failed idea will not lead on successful results. the estimated 70% lower prices is just a scifi wishfull thought

production and material detail was never the best feature shapeways could offer. on other hand, we all admit that customer service, is the best you can find. having a weak point on production, why shapeways decided to risk everything and make bad things worst? don't you understand that having all these 3d printing hub services out there offering sla resin 3d printed miniatures with better detail for much lower cost than the new fud pricing, is not a good idea for shapeways to experiment on unstable ideas and risk everything?

remember my words, the new changes will not inrease profit for shapeways. whoever is responsible for this or whoever hurried to imposs these new changes, sooner or later will have to give proper explainations to the big boss for great loss of income and reduce of orders on fud. i wouldn't like to be into his or her position

@DistrictX
Do you have a shop here
I can not find any designs under your name.
You are talking here as if something for you would be personal.
But it seems to me as if you want to spread somehow only bad mood.
I would be interested in what the price change affects you?
If something is too expensive you just do not buy it or where else.
Sincerely
Christian

@Sonic_Sun, you must be a new user here, because you have no idea how shapeways shops work and you are not aware that people can upload and produce items without having s public shop. as you understand, it is possible a designer have hundreds designs uploaded and none of them visible

now, please answer this: are other people's shops, your problem or the fact that shapeways really messed up the fud pricing and proper 3d model orientation ? it seems to me as if you did not really understand what we are talking about here, do you ?

@DistrictX
Oh I understand
It is that ; someone can buy cheap, 1000 parts of a model and these sold out of shapeways marketplase.
OK. What makes shapeways now.
There is one who orders cheap parts, many, very many. And sold them out of shapeways marketplase.
Now shapeways loses mark up fees. right?
Shapeways change prices now you loose mark up right?
Ok for me better you loose mark up then shapeways.
Why ? If shapeways makes a profit, the prices may fall.
In my opinion, the price increase are the fault, which sell out of shapeways marketplase.
A German proverb.
"Eine Kuh die Milch gibt, schlachtet man nicht"