Road To Major Fud Improvements Starts With Repricing

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by Andrewsimonthomas, May 9, 2017.

  1. TonyRR
    TonyRR Well-Known Member
    I've a suggestion.

    On products with small multiparts the "per part fee" is going to be more expensive than the FUD used to print the part...

    Try to consider charging the "Per part fee" only on multiparts products with big parts . This is no sense...

    I've small 1/350 products with multiparts on them that are punished hard by the "per part fee"...

    Thanks
     
  2. CybranKNight
    CybranKNight Well-Known Member
    That seems to be the intention more or less, each PART has to be handled, cleaned and sorted to ensure that it gets to you or your customer, and when the printer could have dozens if not hundreds of parts per tray it's a lot harder to keep track of files with lots of parts compared to files with all the parts on a sprue or that only have one part.
     
  3. Keystone_Details
    Keystone_Details Well-Known Member
    I kind of take exception to those that think folks whom had multi-part designs were somehow trying to cheat the system or shaft other shops somehow. I did it because I was ALLOWED, and because I could design exquisitely intricate kits with parts that would not be ruined by sprues or by my customers trying to remove parts from sprues.

    I was also essentially promised that SW could handle this logistic without penalizing me. Obviously I have to deal with the changes like everyone else, but I don't think it is right to label any of us that prefer kitting over single part globbed up detail parts (which I can avoid with simple, smooth surfaces on individual parts) that customers find impossible to clean and will eventually stop buying product.

    This hurts SW and designers alike. I would have thought there was a more amenable solution than to to punish the multi part designs.
     
  4. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    Injection molded kit price includes importer/distributor and shop revenue. Are you refering to similar situation with resin, or only direct from manufacturer?
     
  5. New pricing structure just plain sucks. All of my models went up approximately 30-40% and makes them unfeasable to print. I think shapeways new pricing is only there to weed out the files they don't want to mess with. I may be wrong but I'm not the only one that feels this way.
     
  6. mcassetty
    mcassetty Member
    I have to agree with bmcpherson most of my models went up anywhere for 40 to 60%. I am not sure what to do. Shapeways you have priced me out of the market. I found out if I break them in several parts that the price goes down. How dumb is that (you have been saying forever to package your items together to save money)
     
  7. Bathsheba
    Bathsheba Well-Known Member
    I'm not sure where this feeling of being punished is coming from...why would Shapeways want that? For my part I believe them that they're trying to bring pricing in line with their real costs. It's an interative process because they have to aggregate a lot of data to find out what these parts cost to make in statistical quantities. And it takes time to see how people will use existing guidelines: user practices evolve, and they naturally tend to exploit sweet spots in pricing, and only time tells whether everyone can live with that.
    Repricing always hurts -- when Shapeways started printing steel they forced down its price by 40%, and my inventory lost $30,000 in value that day. But that's life in a new industry: it takes time for prices to stabilize and there are bound to be shocks in both directions.
     
  8. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    As @Keystone_Details said, the issue is that they were allowed. People optimized for the rules, so they are not to be blamed if the rules were wrong. SF, steel, porcelain, cast metals, FUD/FXD... what next? It cast serious doubts about if other old or new material will go the same path. Worse if it happens with new materials (HP one?).

    Solid ship?

    With SF there were models that were not optimized for old formula that went down with new one. They could had been cheaper before, and after they could have gone up (or down, but less).
     
  9. pt103dotcom
    pt103dotcom Member
    One way to go with multiple parts is get creative with sprue, keeping in mind vertical space and overhang. And no sprue joined parts if it can be avoided. I was getting ready to sprue these up when SW announced the upcoming changes so I kept that in mind when sprueing. Also ease of removal, the barrels only need 1 cut each to free them. Here's the kind of weird cage I made:
    [​IMG]

    The parts held, the handles are fragile and the reason for spending some cost to protect them. The barrels and bodys are about 1.5"/3.8cm and the relatively reasonable cost went down a third which I was glad to see and will make my customers happy and more inclined to buy:
    [​IMG]
    Although luckily most of my stuff seems to have gone down, I feel bad for the designers that got hit with no way out...
     
  10. coines23
    coines23 Well-Known Member
    Yes. Nearly all of my models are.
     
  11. Keystone_Details
    Keystone_Details Well-Known Member
    Did you compare the cost between loose parts and added sprue material on this model? What about the surfaces on your pats where the sprues cross over? Wonder what the differential was.
     
  12. Keystone_Details
    Keystone_Details Well-Known Member
    There are two factors that make me feel punished. One comes from the excessive cost per part IMHO. It is the equivalentt of buying a large popcorn and the movie theater charging ten cents per kernel and 2.50 for the empty bag, On a 25 piece part, do we really think that collecting and cleaning 25 loose parts from a bin is worth $25? I'd be more willing to pay half that.

    The second comes from the fact that I now cannot design the parts in my kits the way I intended to withou a cost penalty.

    Guess I don't understand why this is not obvious.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  13. BoMonroe
    BoMonroe Well-Known Member
    problem with this approach is you get ugly fuzz on all of those areas where the objects are stacked... having sprues above detail areas is something I would avoid at all costs
     
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  14. MMShapeways
    MMShapeways Well-Known Member
    Hi Andrew

    Thanks for your work on this, just wondering if you have any idea when the User Orientation and Cleaned Parts options are going to be available. What time frame are you looking at? I've got some stuff coming up that will be dependent on these features, much in the same vein as the railroad dudes shells/cars/carriages.
     
  15. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    Goodmorning all, catching up from a public holiday here in The Netherlands.
    -

    Hmm interesting, why are you concerned that it's currently not set to the cheapest orientation?
    I think Alan Hudson explained it a few pages before, we actually check every orientation during the upload to see which one is the cheapest.
     
  16. diStefan
    diStefan Member
    Let me know where is that option that "we actually check every orientation during the upload to see which one is the cheapest"?

    thx
     
  17. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    DiStefan,

    Can you elaborate what you mean?
    When you upload a model our software calculates every orientation and ends up showing the price for the cheapest orientation.

    This orientation which was calculated during upload does not mean we will also print the model in this orientation.
    Upon ordering the production engineer will check the model and orientate the model in a way it will be best
    Special note when the engineer sets the orientation for the model, it's actually saved and used on feature orders as well as long as the model isn't updated. Though there are exceptions where an engineer can still change it.

    The orientation feature that will be launched shortly allows you to force an orientation.
    This will however mean that the price will also reflect that set orientation.
    When not touching this feature, the cheapest orientation is priced and the engineer decides how it will be printed.
     
  18. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    multiparts on big parts are way easier to handle during post production.
    The smaller they are the more work to clean them properly (cause they are hard to see and hold).

    Also making sure all the small parts don't go missing is harder than on big parts.
     
  19. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    Looking at this model:
    https://www.shapeways.com/product/B2E2ANVNX/1-64-28-cattle-trailer-round-nose?optionId=58735825

    Have you considered removing the floor (and offer it as a separate part in the file).
    Right now the inside of your model will be filled with wax.
    If you remove the floor (or roof) we can print the model as a bathtub and the inside will be free of wax.

    I can guarantee that the price will be in your favor, big time ;)
     
  20. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    It's not that we don't want certain files, we want to print everything as long as the price is right.

    So an example of a model with the exact same volume, let's imagine a wire model and a solid model.
    With the old price it would cost the exact same for both customers even though one model is a wire model and takes a lot of time and support material.

    OLD PRICING:
    Model A:
    Costs Shapeways $15 to print.
    Costs Designer $30 to order

    Model B:
    Costs Shapeways $40 to print.
    Costs Designer $30 to order

    so if you order model A, you're also paying for model B.

    NEW PRICING:
    Model A:
    Costs Shapeways $15 to print.
    Costs Designer $20 to order

    Model B:
    Costs Shapeways $40 to print.
    Costs Designer $45 to order

    Now you only pay for your own model, you're not the sponsor of someone elses model.
    This way Shapeways can still make money by providing fair prices.


    Please please, just see above as an example, I have no idea about margins/profits internally :)
    This is just to show that the old pricing caused you to sponsor other peoples models whereas the new pricing changes that
     
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